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Talk:Khesterex
As a simple definition of a klingonaase term, this seems more appropriate for the Klingon language glossary rather than having it's own article. I suggest a merge, especially since another conjugation of the terminology is already defined at Klingonese glossary (K). -- Captain MKB 14:24, August 7, 2011 (UTC) :Actually, this is a fairly significant concept in the FASA depiction of The Klingons, informing their political theory and so on. Completing it was outside my Orion-centric aims, but I felt it worthwhile to create the page as a starter. Since there is more information, I added the stub. I might complete it when I get around to mining that source for Orion lore, but would hope a Klingon fan gets the chance first. -- BadCatMan 15:26, August 7, 2011 (UTC) ::I understand the significance - FASA actually lifted the concept from the novel series (and watered it down as well) ::Well that's where the conflict lies -- there is already a detailed passage about it in the Klingon glossary. This article is a definition of the term, which is not a person, place or thing - it is a cultural concept. As such, word definitions are the province of the glossary, whether they be significant concepts or trivialities. The length of detail are what display the significance, not the fact that it has a separate article. Furthermore, the root word khest is more relevant to the concept than the version with the suffix ''-erex''. -- Captain MKB 16:51, August 7, 2011 (UTC) :::As I said, khesterex is more than just a word-definition or an expansion of khest or khest'n, but an important Klingon political/philosophical concept, together with komerex: that which is not expanding/conquering (komerex, IIRC) is therefore dead or dying (khesterex) and deserving of whatever it gets. It informed how the Klingons reacted to the Federation, the Orions and others. Okay, when I get the chance, I'll write it up and we'll see how it looks. :::Do you mean The Final Reflection? It came out a year after The Klingons - not that it matters, as John M. Ford wrote both. Chicken/egg. -- BadCatMan 01:55, August 8, 2011 (UTC) :I suppose this would largely be determined about the amount of content and sources that could be brought to bear on the article. As far as I know, khesterex is a big thing in FASA and certain novels so it might actually qualify as its own article. Thats just my view though, I think the article could certainly be developed more and stand on its own. Darth Batrus 12:40, August 8, 2011 (UTC) ::Yes, if we create a comprehensive expansion of the subject, there probably will be a sufficient amount of material to really expand this topic. ::However, I have to question the decision to not use the root word khest and instead use the suffix construction -erex ... much like in English how we use the singular form and unconjugated form as article titles, I'd suggest that be a valid approach for other languages as well. The broader view of the topic is to use the root word rather than choosing a narrower aspect of the term that is constructed from the root term. -- Captain MKB 14:21, August 8, 2011 (UTC) :::That was the point of the stub. :::Because khest and khest'n really have nothing to do with khesterex. I made the note because it's worth pointing out that there are similar words with the same root, but they have very different uses. :::Anyway, I compiled the available information and wrote the article. I had to piece together some translations, and I'd misremembered some aspects (like the likely amount of info, and the Federation is definitely komerex) but I feel this is now quite worthy. It's a companion piece to komerex, but this one focuses on khesterex. -- BadCatMan 13:25, August 9, 2011 (UTC) ::::One phrase I couldn't adequately translate from The Final Reflection was khesterex thath. Googling suggests "screwed up situation", which is likely a guess from context, and maybe some fanon dictionaries. Klingon for FUBAR I guess, but I'll leave it out. ::::For that, I also left the stub. Maybe there are other sources that offer similar sayings or khesterex races. -- BadCatMan 13:37, August 9, 2011 (UTC) :::::Can you remind me in which scene that phrase was used?--Emperorkalan 06:49, August 10, 2011 (UTC) :::::Ok, it's where Vrenn is given command of a scout ship. There's obviously no precise translation, but the connotation here is more of a dead-end (to his career), not really "screwed up situation" or FUBAR. There just isn't enough information for more.--Emperorkalan 16:04, August 10, 2011 (UTC) :::I'm wondering if you don't have a complete understanding of the topic, or if there is some other reason you are denying the obvious here. The root concept of khest is the basis for the construction of the word khesterex. The form khesterex refers to "the structure that withers/dies/allows itself to be subjugated/lacks will (etc.)" while the root word khest refers to all those elements. :::Simply put khesterex refers to a government or cultural association that displays the qualities referred to by the root word khest -- dying, withering, not moving forward, lacking will, allowing self to be subjugated (with all further motivational and sexual subtext left unsaid). :::The concept itself is what concerns the Klingon culture, the more specific term refers simply to those governments and civilizations they ascribe these concepts to. -- Captain MKB 13:40, August 9, 2011 (UTC) ::::Sigh. I've paid more attention to this than you have, I'd wager. This is more than just a word. Exactly as I've said, exactly as the source said, this is a key piece of Klingon philosophy, the underpinnings of their society. This is exactly as important as almost any other racial culture page. ::::This is an encyclopaedia entry, not a dictionary entry. Just because they may or may not share a root word means absolutely nothing. Are 'light' and 'lightning' the same thing? 'Confederation' and 'federation'? No. Do 'philosophy' and 'paedophile' belong in the same article? No. (I don't want to be 'that guy', but this sort of thing is my job.) Khest is a base swear word, equivalent to (I'm guessing we can't swear here so) the f-word. It has nothing more to do with this. -- BadCatMan 14:02, August 9, 2011 (UTC) :::::I have to agree with BCM on this point: in TFR khest'n wasn't used as much more than an expletive, while khesterex was explicitly used to explain a philosophical concept. Did anything outside of TFR and FASA material actually get into this (more than just borrowing the words)?--Emperorkalan 06:49, August 10, 2011 (UTC)